Drymarchon Couperis/Eastern Indigo Introductory Breeding....

[TraceyS]

Just wanted to share a few photos-please excuse the awful quality...(a) I used the Iphone and (b) I didn't want to disturb them too much.

This is the ONE project I am most excited about this season...although, not going to lie. If I get some of the blackhead and orange dream mojave ball combos I am shooting for I will be in 7th heaven too.

I TRIED to attach the initial introduction video I shot, just to show how they interacted - bear in mind this is the FIRST time they have ever met/seen each other although they are housed in the same room so would be exposed to smell. Sadly I can't figure out how to load it! I'm sure it would be very boring to most of you as it has no flashy camera work or audio but I wanted people to see how the male nuzzles the female, he rubs his head back and forth over her and he rode her around the tank (no, not implying anything dirty here-he literally mimicked her every action for a while). At times he rubs his head over her body and under her neck area and at other times he twitches his tail along the body, 'tickling' her...she would respond by very jerky movements. When I first introduced him, BOTH snakes, after a few seconds, defecated in opposite ends of the enclosure which I read as a positive sign. Indigos are the most fascinating snakes to watch. I shot several videos and in one she had shot towards him and jerked away a few times, times where my heart was in my mouth. I have heard all the horror stories and am familiar with some breeders even going as far as binding or taping mouths to prevent them from attacking and trying to eat each other. As you can tell, I took my chances. Can't even IMAGINE being desperate enough to do that to an animal in order to have them breed.






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Anyway, regarding habitat and what I 'did' in preparation...both were fed very well going into the season. I keep the pair at room temp which typically hovers around 72F but they are in the bsmt which is cooler now. Both prefer a diet of ASFs (African soft fur or multi mammate rats). As far as age, I believe 6yrs for him and 7 for her but need to check my records. She is a nice healthy 'pushing' 7 ft...he is a little smaller but stockier. I keep them on aspen, just easier for the multitude of 'cleans' I have to do in a week

And....although I did NOT get a picture, I did indeed find them locked yesterday morning...half hour later when I found my phone and went back they had already separated...duh!! Will leave them together for another day then separate them for a week, offer food, and try again on alternating weeks. Hoping this is all good!!

[Rhino]

They look gorgeous! Such a dark colour. Are they all black? What size clutch would be expected? Egg or live bearer? Very nice though Tracey, thanks for sharing!

Chad

[TraceyS]

They look gorgeous! Such a dark colour. Are they all black? What size clutch would be expected? Egg or live bearer? Very nice though Tracey, thanks for sharing!

Chad

Hi Chad-fairly close to all black with a peachy red throat and lighter underbelly, STUNNING irridescent black scales and just overall one of the most show stopping animals out there!! They can have between 4-14 eggs in a clutch, tends to be on the smaller size. This is my first year working with them and am thrilled at the possibility. Apparently they can retain live sperm for up to four years. Not sure when to expect eggs IF she goes as it typically would happen April to June in the natural habitat but I can't even begin to mimic what they would have for typical breeding conditions etc. I think as keepers we just do the best we can with what we have and hope for the best Unless I have the room in the bsmt to dedicate to a natural gopher type sandy burrow I am SOL...

[Rhino]

They sound gorgeous! Are they a more agressive snake (I know... Compared to what right? Haha!)? I guess, how hard are they to handle? They seem to have that... I'm want to eat you look in their eye.

Hi Chad-fairly close to all black with a peachy red throat and lighter underbelly, STUNNING irridescent black scales and just overall one of the most show stopping animals out there!! They can have between 4-14 eggs in a clutch, tends to be on the smaller size. This is my first year working with them and am thrilled at the possibility. Apparently they can retain live sperm for up to four years. Not sure when to expect eggs IF she goes as it typically would happen April to June in the natural habitat but I can't even begin to mimic what they would have for typical breeding conditions etc. I think as keepers we just do the best we can with what we have and hope for the best Unless I have the room in the bsmt to dedicate to a natural gopher type sandy burrow I am SOL...

[Spankenstyne]

Hope it pans out Tracey.

[GONESNAKEE]

In my experience breeding potentially "cannibalistic" species if something is to go down it usually happens in the first few seconds & is typically the female that tried to kill the male everytime.
Its actually pretty rare for this to occur & in my experience it has always been California Kings & the females being the "killers".
I think EIs are FAR more intelligent than the average Colubrid (& most Boids as well) & WAY moreso than CKs LOL that are more creatures of PURE instinct & little if ANY "thought" involved.
I have had CKs try to eat literally anything including their own selves but have never seen such behaviour in EIs ever.
That all said if carefull with first introductions its typically all good from there on.
Not to sure what to say about these "people" that tape mouths shut or socks over their heads or cones of any of that crap LOL
If conditioned correctly there should never be any issues.
Lots of folks freak out because the males will "bite" the females, they do not "bite" persay but rather grab hold & hang on LOL
This is more common in unreceptive females being "pinned" than in receptive ones.
The fact that both snakes "scented" pretty much ASAP is always a good sign, my female Womas will quite often do this as well, more common with the girls than the boys, some will also do the tail wag & the jerky pushy type actions are always good signs as well.
Of course a visual lockup is the best sign of them all LOL
Cheers Mark

[TraceyS]

Thanks Mark!!! I was hoping you would chime in being the indigo master and all.. Yes, I am reading a lot of positives into the pairing. I have separated them and will repeat the pairing every second week now until maybe early spring unless of course I see obvious signs from her.... Today they separated but definitely 'bonded' as in lying companionably if thats a term I can use with them... She had been cruising her enclosure for a few weeks so hoping thats another sign that she was looking for a mate...I just hope the temps are adequately cool enough...sadly I don't have a cooler room so they are sitting at about 72F.

[Monkey Tails Canada]

Best of luck with this project!! Would be awesome to see some baby Indigos around.

[TraceyS]

They are VERY intelligent, in fact I have heard them referred to as the most intelligent in the snake world...they will literally watch and follow you as you move around. They rarely will waste the effort to lunge at anything though unless they are pretty confident it is food. As far as gauging temperaments they are fairly docile, I have not been tagged by one but HAVE been sized up a few times if that makes sense...they will sometimes nuzzle your arm if you are holding them, as if checking out if you are edible...my girl did actually open her mouth very wide and was about to 'taste' me one day but you just have to learn the signals as with any animal. If I can avoid a bite I will but it wouldn't be the end of the world...or the first time by any means I have picked teeth from my fingers from bigger lol!! They are definitely not a beginner snake, DO require a different kind of care (space/temperatures, diet and general maintenance, ARE a very rare snake but definitely worth the wait for anyone serious about preserving pure species and ensuring they thrive in captivity. God forbid if anyone takes it upon themselves to hybridize these guys...

[SuicideAnomaly]

They are absolutely gorgeous. I'm still mad at Mark for selling one of his before coming to me.

Someday I'll have one of these magnificent creatures.I've been building the enclosure in my mind for what seems like ages. I've recently got some inserts for my GTP enclosures, and I'm considering getting one done for my future EI.

I'm absolutely with you on the hybridization issue. A lot of people are starting to focus on Carpondros, and it's just not for me. I'm quite against it actually...